On the topic of NSFW

"Reigntastic" (reigntastic) 01/30/2014 at 17:09 • Filed to: None

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Rather than debate the current policy regarding NSFW, I'd actually like to hear some opinions from those who mentioned they did not like any of the NSFW posts, or NSFW content in general. I have a different opinion, but I respect other people's opinions and want to understand the reasoning behind them.

What is it about seeing human anatomy that is inherently distasteful?

puddler > Reigntastic 01/30/2014 at 17:11

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since when is there such things as beautiful naked women in sexy poses on the internet?

whats distasteful about the objectification of women?

Reigntastic > puddler 01/30/2014 at 17:12

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What exactly is the internet for again?

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Reigntastic 01/30/2014 at 17:12

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How EL_ULY will spend his time at work without Oppo NSFW

ddavidn > Reigntastic 01/30/2014 at 17:13

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I'll see myself out again.

Takuro Spirit > Reigntastic 01/30/2014 at 17:13

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When at work, I skip the NSFW threads.

When at home, I search for them.

In the bathroom.

Pantsless.

oldirtybootz > Reigntastic 01/30/2014 at 17:13

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I don't click the NSFW "porn" posts, but they don't bother me. I just don't get it. I have a site for porn and it's not the softcore, "models" like what are posted here. These girls are all too "perfect" for me, I don't like fake photoshoot porn. That's just my take on it.

Anon > Reigntastic 01/30/2014 at 17:15

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Looking at porn, looking at cars I can't afford, looking at bicycles I can maybe one day afford, watching funny cat videos, and watching anime

Roberto G. > Reigntastic 01/30/2014 at 17:15

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yamahog > Reigntastic 01/30/2014 at 17:16

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So I'm cool to post some naked dudes?? Why didn't you guys say so sooner??

I wrote a longer post on the original thread, but as much as I appreciate the female form, I just find it tacky and overdone mixed with cars. Like a 12-year-old boy's poster choice. I like to think we're all past that awkward phase, but whatever. I can roll my eyes to myself as I skip over the NSFW tag and go about my day.

Reigntastic > ddavidn 01/30/2014 at 17:16

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Didn't want to have that on my browser history at work, you're the best.

willkinton247 > Reigntastic 01/30/2014 at 17:16

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I find it to be objectifying, and that's why I don't like it. I think it's a bit disrespectful to women. We are ogling these women the same way we ogle inanimate objects. It's the same reason why I wouldn't go to a strip club.

There are several other implications as well, but that's the core of the issue for me

However, I like the freedom oppo allows, and I'd want to maintain that.

Reigntastic > oldirtybootz 01/30/2014 at 17:17

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I mean, that's how I see it too. I'd say pretty much everything I've ever seen on oppositelock is so softcore that I'm more interested in it for the desire to see a beautiful woman than I am to get my rocks off.

Reigntastic > Takuro Spirit 01/30/2014 at 17:18

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Pants at home are entirely optional.

puddler > ddavidn 01/30/2014 at 17:18

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hahaha that was awesome.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > yamahog 01/30/2014 at 17:18

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Occasionally there are male NSFW threads. They're rare, and a bit of a surprise, but no rules against them.

ddavidn > puddler 01/30/2014 at 17:19

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You HAVE seen this a million times before, right? I mean... you must have...

Takuro Spirit > Reigntastic 01/30/2014 at 17:19

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After the kids go to bed. :D

The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 > Reigntastic 01/30/2014 at 17:20

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If there's a car in the picture, fine. That's car related. Otherwise, I just don't see the point. There's plenty of free videos out there. And for me, the pictures for some reason serve as a depressing reminder that I am single and will probably never have a woman of the caliber typically posted here. For some reason the videos don't do that...

oldirtybootz > Reigntastic 01/30/2014 at 17:20

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Exactly, it's not even what I'd consider real porn. I may as well look at an SI Swimsuit issue like I'm 15 again.

Reigntastic > yamahog 01/30/2014 at 17:21

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Honestly?

I wouldn't care if you posted dudes. Different strokes for different folks.

Definitely true though, cars (vehicles in general?) have always been referred to with female pronouns, yet design styles range from masculine to feminine and anywhere in-between.

puddler > ddavidn 01/30/2014 at 17:22

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no, there's a first time for everything.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > willkinton247 01/30/2014 at 17:24

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I think most of the NSFW girls posted are paid models so for them, it's actually a decent paying job. Of course, the professional model industry isn't the best in the world but I think it's something a lot more acceptable and safe than say a seedy strip club or shady, back-room porn and whatnot. And can we not appreciate and enjoy things for their beauty? I'd reckon for most of us jalops, when we own a beautiful car we enjoy, even though it is inanimate we take care of them as best we can and are willing to go above and beyond for them. In the pictures, yes they (the sexy girls) are just as we see them, but in person I'd hope most of us would have more to say than just "SHOW US SOME TITTIES!"

Reigntastic > willkinton247 01/30/2014 at 17:25

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That definitely makes sense. Personally though, I even find myself ogling my girlfriend when I manage to have an intimate moment. Appreciation of beauty first hand and through media seem about the same to me, but when you get into the more degrading forms (strip clubs, hardcore pornography, etc) I would absolutely agree that it's objectifying women.

I realized that a bit recently after noticing how many different items (perfume, watches, cars, alcohol, so on) can all be simply advertised by showing the product and a good looking dame next to it, and that's how it's been for hundreds of years.

ddavidn > puddler 01/30/2014 at 17:26

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You must have recently joined the internet. Welcome! Here is an intro...

http://icanhas.cheezburger.com/

yamahog > Reigntastic 01/30/2014 at 17:26

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I appreciate that, but I was trying to point out the inherent bit of bias present when everyone is operating under the assumption NSFW = naked or close to naked women.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Reigntastic 01/30/2014 at 17:27

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The only time using a female pronoun for an inanimate object made sense, in my mind, was for boats. Why? Because keep men out of the deep shit.

Reigntastic > The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 01/30/2014 at 17:27

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That's not really what I was getting at, since Oppo continues to be classified as an off-topic forum.

No matter how good looking some model is, somewhere out there, somebody is absolutely tired of their bullshit. Looks of a partner are hardly what makes for a suitable companion, but definitely helps a lot. Plastic surgery can work miracles, but it can't fix stupid.

desertdog5051 > Reigntastic 01/30/2014 at 17:29

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I don't care either way. But I will say that making strict rules about NSFW would damage the openness of the site. The viewer audience should be the one to determine if it is within taste.

Reigntastic > yamahog 01/30/2014 at 17:29

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Well, the demographics of the forum speak for themselves.

puddler > ddavidn 01/30/2014 at 17:30

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recently rejoined the internet. my dog is named mr.jenkins after leeroy on the first vid.

and that second one has left me befuddled.

willkinton247 > Reigntastic 01/30/2014 at 17:35

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My girlfriend is the most beautiful girl on the planet (of course). But that beauty combines with everything else about her. When I look at her and think "wow, she's beautiful" I'm talking about her through and through. Her personality, her quirks, everything is represented in her beauty.

If I just thought about how "hot" she was, I'd feel like that's degrading too.

And FWIW, I hate it when advertisers do that. It really annoys me. It seems cheap, easy and... degrading.

pauljones > Reigntastic 01/30/2014 at 17:37

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Their concerns are really rather simple, and even quite valid:

1) Perspective.

Not everyone is into women. There may be some dudes that prefer dudes. There may be some women that prefer dudes. There may be some people that just don't want to think about it on a regular basis.

This is the ultimate answer to your question - different people like or don't like seeing certain things. And you know what? You're no different. At the risk of being a callous and judgmental ass, you may love seeing scantily-clad pictures of a Victoria's Secret or Sports Illustrated supermodel. How about a picture of an equally scantily-clad Roseanne Barr? Or perhaps Danny DeVito? It's all just human anatomy, right?

Well, herein comes the point where we all realize that to a certain extent, we genuinely are a shallow bunch of jerks, irrespective of gender or orientation.

That being said, there are other reasons that a handful of people have been complaining about NSFW posts...

2) Religious Views

Quite simply, some people have very particular sensitivities to this sort of thing due to their religious beliefs.

2) Orientation

Not everyone is into women.

3) Objectification

And, well, let's be real here. It is objectification. There will always be a certain degree of it that's allowed under the "people will be people" clause, but there is a line. That line has been crossed many, many times, and not just here.

4) It has nothing to do with cars

No, it doesn't. Don't even try to counter that argument. You can't. Scantily-clad women have nothing per se to do with cars. If you want cars and women, go learn about the stories of people like Ashley Force, Danica Patrick, Sabine Schmitz, or, even (and you'll actually love this one, you pervs) Jessica Barton. All are very talented enthusiasts who have contributed a great deal to automotive culture, and are gearheads of the highest order.

5) It can be exclusionary

Not only from the standpoint of people who simply aren't into women or have religious views, etc., but also from the standpoint that it makes it difficult for this place to be friendlier to younger crowds of would-be enthusiasts that Oppositelock would otherwise be a great resource for.

All of their reasons for objecting to NSFW posts on Oppositelock are perfectly valid.

The problem is that their expectations of getting rid of NSFW contend are not valid.

To start with, Oppositelock is, and always has been, an almost completely free-form forum with little to no oversight. It began as a place in which commenters could discuss whatever they wanted whenever the wanted, without the fear of pissing off Ray Wert with humorous, but slightly off-topic comments on the front page. It will remain so.

The only real caveat to that is that there are basic rules of courtesy that must be followed. Do that, and pretty much anything goes.

Secondly, to introduce a change to the very nature of what Oppositelock is (and has been) would require the support of the overwhelming majority to so much as propose. The overwhelming majority, however, has no problem with the NSFW posts.

Thirdly, even if we wanted to make such a change, the infrastructure necessary to do so simply doesn't exist. This isn't a well-organized, compartmentalized super forum that you are likely used to from other places. This is simply a train-of-thought forum where posts are never organized and are simply posted in the order that they are submitted with no other consideration. That makes moderation very, very hard to do in that regard. And when it comes right down to it, moderators here are also somewhat limited in what we can do. We can delete comments and posts, and remove authorship privileges, but we cannot ban or block anyone.

Even if neither of the above were hurdles, the simple act of enforcing a no-NSFW rule on any forum, let alone Oppositelock, is something that requires a decent-sized team with a great deal of dedication and energy to do the task. That's not an easy thing to do and commit to doing on a regular basis. As mods, we work and keep an eye on things whenever and wherever we can, but we are limited in our time. We do actually have lives outside of Jalopnik/Oppositelock.

So, in truth, I understand the concerns of those that complain about the NSFW posts. But in turn, they need to understand the reality of the situation and get over it. We all do the best we've got with what we've got, and we enjoy the ride. The rest doesn't matter.

pauljones > yamahog 01/30/2014 at 17:41

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There is indeed such a bias. And to take that bias one step further, it's not like I see any of these guys posting pictures of a scantily-clad Roseanne Barr, either. There is a certain double standard (or even triple-standard, depending on how you look at it) going on here.

And no, not everyone here is past that awkward stage. In fact, in the past few years, the average age of the commentariat has dropped dramatically, and many of the commenters here these days are boys right in that awkward stage.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > puddler 01/30/2014 at 17:41

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It isn't objectification, most of us have passed the college frat. years, and know that sexy women can be also smart, great persons. But that doesn't mean you can't appreciate beauty too, if you go from an extreme to the other, you're in a worse place than the one you started in, however it takes rationality and intellectual maturity to be able to appreciate both the body, brains and personality of a woman.

deekster_caddy > oldirtybootz 01/30/2014 at 17:45

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I would call what we see here "art" or "expressionism" before "soft porn". NSFW definitely, for which the labeling is great.

deekster_caddy > willkinton247 01/30/2014 at 17:50

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Cars are the same way. You can look at one and think "Wow, that is one sweet ride. Hot!" but then you drive it and the whole idea falls apart.

How do you think those cars feel when we post closeups of their waxed up bumpers, headlights and exhaust tips? You know they don't drive around like that every day, they just shine them up for the photo shoots! We should just shut the whole internet down. All these phony pictures of fake things that are no fun to experience firsthand.

pauljones > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 01/30/2014 at 17:52

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Not at all.

To start with, no matter how well they are paid, the fact that they are monetarily compensated for prancing around nearly nude does not eliminate the fact that it is severely objectifying.

Secondly, the modeling industry is downright brutal, no matter what level it's at, professional or amateur. Once upon a time, I was a dumb kid who went to HIN shows and the like to look at the import models, because what else were they there for, right? A few chats with import models like Lisa Kim Fleming and Kimloan turned that dumbass attitude right around. And the pay? Yeah, it's not much at all.

The professional modeling industry isn't much better. Sure, sometimes superstar models like those from Victoria's Secret can make a good chunk of change, but as I pointed out earlier, that doesn't make it any less objectifying. It's also not guaranteed that you'll make good money. Sometimes, those that hire them will simply "pay in trade" by allowing them to keep the clothes they modeled in and then sending them on their way. The clothes may be nice, but they don't pay the bills. They also don't buy food; not that that matters, as many employers could care less about how hard a model works (and modeling is suprisingly hard work), as long as they show up with 23-inch waists.

Oh, but it gets better, too: many of the girls that get started in the modeling industry are indentured servants in all but name. They are sent to live in Paris, Milan, Sao Paolo, or New York City and given stipends - stipends that are debited against any future earnings, in addition to the fees that the modeling agencies charge for representation. It's a brutal, brutal world.

And quite frankly, very few people have much more to say than "Show us your tiny waist" and "give us your sexy face" to teenage girls.

It is one thing to appreciate beauty, no matter the form. That being said, willkinton247 is exactly right, even if maybe he's a little cheeseball about it.

Stef Schrader > pauljones 01/30/2014 at 18:00

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That's a fantastic summary.

I'm in the take-it-or-leave-it crowd for many of the aforementioned reasons: religion, non-preference towards nekkid women, and even if there were nekkid dudes, penises are really a function over form item if there ever was one. It's just not something I go out and seek pictures of.

Generally, the presence of "hey, there's a lot of dudes here who like scantily- or non-clad females" isn't a turn-off in the same way as, say, going to an event where the only women there are standing around in bikinis. There are other females here...participating! I'm not being told to fetch sandwiches! Hugs all around.

One thing—I can empathize with the folks who've said that they're less likely to link here because of it. I've never run into that problem here, but I have on Facebook where someone connected to me posts something a little beyond PG-13, it somehow ends up in the wrong feed, and it sucks. It really does. I think it's less likely to be an issue here since there's no auto-generated feed of content that's out in the open—rather, you have to click on NSFW content to get NSFW.

Make sure anything NSFW remains clearly marked and behind a SFW lead image and I'll continue clicking on everything else .

willkinton247 > deekster_caddy 01/30/2014 at 18:02

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Actually, that kinda supports my point. Ogling women the same way we ogle machines. Things we can own.

This is my opinion, and I'm not asking anyone to change. I'm just expressing why I don't like it.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > pauljones 01/30/2014 at 18:03

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Agreeing to be paid to do something makes it a job. I think acting like modeling is some evil profession because of the consumer base "objectifies" them more than the people who look at them. They can say 'no' to those jobs. You know you don't have to accept a job just because you're offered it, right? I met people in school, both men and women, who did modeling on the side in various forms. Maybe some of them did erotic/risque/nude but still they were offered money to do soemthing they were not opposed to doing and they did it.

And those HIN shows are objectification and fetishism of everything negative about the automotive world. Not exactly a good venue for much of anything there. Glamorization of illicit and dangerous activity alone is bad enough but yeah the "parties" with the models and the foam and whatnot didn't exactly strike me as something I'd want to be associated with. Basically the negative stereotypes of a "frat boy" amped up and given a large budget thanks to advertising money.

If a career model lives in poverty as a servant then either A) they have a shitty agent or B) they need to change jobs. I'm well aware the industry isn't good and it's biggest fault is the blacklisting of "plus sized" models. Quite frankly I'd be concerned if all women in the world were asked to be smaller than that plus size. Yes that should be improved on, but that doesn't mean that the entire industry needs to die in a fire.

STREPITUS > yamahog 01/30/2014 at 18:06

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My 12-year-old poster choices weren't a phase.

And countless cutouts from C&D, R&T, MT etc. My parents wished that it was a phase right until the day I turned it into a career.

Milky > Reigntastic 01/30/2014 at 18:20

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As someone who regularly makes NSFW posts I'll weigh in.(some links look like they're broken for some reason, idk why)

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Car's can be beautiful and lets be honest woman are also gorgeous. I like to put the two together and make a post that is very easy on the eyes.

Yes I know some have different sexual preferences, and others prefer not to see it at all. But its worth mentioning that my NSFW posts pretty regularly get 500+ views. If we're democratic about it, oppo as a whole seems to like them. Also I try to keep it classy and exclude porn, you can get that easy on the internet, no need for it here.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

pauljones > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 01/30/2014 at 18:24

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There are a number of subtleties that you're glossing over here; let's start with your first argument:

"Agreeing to be paid to do something makes it a job."

Not necessarily, no. The choice given to everyone, models or otherwise, runs thusly: do this and get paid for it or deal with the consequences. Those consequences can be anything, and can be either positive or negative. But to simply say that by agreeing to take money in exchange for doing something is necessarily a job is inaccurate.

On a related note, once again, just because there was monetary compensation, that doesn't absolve it from being objectifying.

"And those HIN shows are objectification and fetishism of everything negative about the automotive world. Not exactly a good venue for much of anything there."

I did not asset that it was a good venue for anything, but that's not to say that it can't be. Both of the models that I mentioned - Lisa Kim Fleming and Kimloan - now run their own modeling and marketing agencies.

"Glamorization of illicit and dangerous activity alone is bad enough..."

Welcome to Jalopnik, where we constantly glamorize hoons of the day, dash cam beat downs, hot rods, etc. Suddenly, we're not so high-handed, are we?

We have no right to criticize others for the same flaws that we posses.

"...but yeah the 'parties' with the models and the foam and whatnot didn't exactly strike me as something I'd want to be associated with. Basically the negative stereotypes of a 'frat boy' amped up and given a large budget thanks to advertising money"

Again, you assume much. Many of these models did not attend the after parties or anything of the sort; they just worked two jobs, including modeling, to pay for school. Most went home and studied.

"If a career model lives in poverty as a servant then either A) they have a shitty agent or B) they need to change jobs. I'm well aware the industry isn't good and it's biggest fault is the blacklisting of 'plus sized' models. Quite frankly I'd be concerned if all women in the world were asked to be smaller than that plus size. Yes that should be improved on, but that doesn't mean that the entire industry needs to die in a fire."

If you think that the biggest fault of the modeling industry has to do with the blacklisting 0f "plus-sized" models, then no, you know nothing of the modeling industry. And you're right - sometimes, these models do have shitty agents. But it's hard to get a new agent in an industry where everything and everyone is that brutal. As for a new job, many of these models are young, impressionable, and easily taken advantage of. Modeling can be a legitimate career, but it can also be brutal, objectifying, soul-sucking, and very difficult to escape. And even if those models that have a terrible experience do have a chance to escape, getting a new job isn't the easiest thing to do without an education and only a few vague runway walks on your resume.

And you know what? All women in the world are asked by contemporary society to be smaller than that plus size.

Here is one resource where you can learn a little more about the industry:

http://modelalliance.org/

I'd also recommend looking up the letters, interviews, and talks given by models such as Coco Rocha and Cameron Russell for a little insight.

oldirtybootz > deekster_caddy 01/30/2014 at 18:26

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That's pretty spot on. There is far worse out there than what's posted here.

Bad Idea Hat > Reigntastic 01/30/2014 at 18:41

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I have two problems with them;

1) They tend to be like little minefields at work, I have to be intensely careful when clicking topics. I can't browse here when I'm beat-down tired. I'm usually good about checking, though I know others wouldn't be.

2) I do feel like they'd be off-putting to females. I'm not sure who on Oppo is female or not, and I don't really care, but I also don't want to ruin their day with boobs and very close shots of vaginas. Basically, I would feel fairly uncomfortable if I wandered in here and there were suddenly dicks everywhere. I'd go to a couple different owners forums if I wanted that.

edit - I have another complaint; distinct lack of truly hot women. Gotta go back to the 50's and 60's for that. Hey, I think cars were last beautiful in the 60's. I think I may be on to something.

Korea Miéville > Reigntastic 01/30/2014 at 20:45

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I don't see a lot of political posts on here — I mean, there may be some, but I can't recall any explicitly political posts, so at the very least it's rare. I'm assuming it's because of a tacit acknowledgement that (a) this isn't a politics site, (b) car enthusiasts probably fall along a wide spectrum of political views, and (c) politics is incredibly divisive, and since we're here to read and talk about cars, mostly, it's best not to rile people up unnecessarily. I'm sure a lot of you guys have strong political opinions, but I don't see you expressing them very often or loudly, although you are within your rights to do so. Personally, I like it that way. I'm interested in politics, but that doesn't mean I want to start political discussions everywhere I hang out on the Internet.

That's pretty much how I feel about the NSFW material. I don't object to it in any way, and I enjoy feminine beauty as much as the next straight guy, but I don't need to inject it into every part of my day. And to the extent that having that stuff on this site has definite drawbacks, I'd just as soon not see it since the benefits of not having it are more meaningful to me.

I don't want it moderated out; maybe if there was a filter so people who didn't want to see those posts didn't have to, that would probably be the ideal solution. I wouldn't want to impose my own views on anyone else's ability to enjoy this site. But if it is about the community here trying to form a consensus and to understand the range of opinions, some that they may not have previously considered, then I would just want to throw my viewpoint into the hat for whatever it's worth. I basically feel the same way about NSFW material as I do about political material or anything else that's potentially divisive or that might alienate people who might otherwise be valuable contributors to the site.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > pauljones 01/30/2014 at 20:58

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job (noun) - 1) A a paid position of regular employment. 2) A task or piece of work, esp. where one is paid.

Guess what? I am asked to do a task. I agree to do said task in exchange for an agreed on piece of compensation. I just took on a job. If I decide to NOT take on any jobs and my bills go unpaid and I lose my home or car, that is ubiquitous to ANY profession. And I hesitate to call modeling a profession like I hesitate to call unskilled labor a profession. All jobs come with stipulations and moral dilemmas and you are extremely naive to think otherwise. In fact, I can argue that quite a few professions "objectify" a trait that you are born with rather than a skill. Whather you use it or not is up to you but there are quite a few career paths that are opened/closed to people based on genetic gifts. I think modeling is just the most prominent so it gets a bunch of attention.

But on the topic of objectification, let's go into that for a second - you have to accept whatever job you accept based on everything it asks for. I am a chemist, and that often entails working on and servicing my own equipment as well as other forms of manual labor and physical exertion. If you think that because you have an educated skill you are absolved from everything that isn't that specialized skill, you've got another thing coming. Likewise, to my knowledge, everyone who models does so KNOWING that their attractiveness/ability to be seen in a positive light by the public are why they were hired. My heart does not break for a model who goes "UGH! People who I think are ugly are saying I look hot!" that's almost as bad as the girl I know who took a job at a sex shop but hates talking about sex with people.....or the service writer at my dad's dealership who doesn't know about cars.....or the older engineer in our company who hates using a computer. The parallels are endless. The fact of the matter is, if your job asks something of you that you don't feel comfortable with, but you take the job anyways, you have yourself to blame if you don't like it.

As for the glamorization of illicit activities on Jalopnik - I don't participate. Go ahead and go back through my posts. I encourage people to take their cars to organized autocrosses and track day events. I rarely even recommend things that are borderline illegal. Plus those articles are far from the focus on jalopnik or oppositelock. Meanwhile, HIN and the like accepted sponsors who KNEW they were endorsing people buying crap to race their hondas on public roads in traffic. That was literally what those events were about with a thin veil of "oh, well these cars look cool too". I know the type. They're laughed out of most serious events because they're trash. Jalopnik is not at all the same because some "hoons of the day" feature objectively illicit activity.

And yes, I do believe telling someone they could be fully qualified to have the job but because they fail to meet a stupid arbitrary aspect they can't even have the job is the worst aspect of an industry. Do you have any idea how many hundreds of thousands, if not MILLIONS, of people in all areas were held back or paid less or not hired at all because they were not a white male? That's pretty heinous. We can discuss the shitty treatment on the job once they can get the job. Going back to your first topic - all of that is moot when you can't even get the job but not because you lack the skill or innate ability, simply because you fail an arbitrary measure that has nothing to do with performing the job at hand.

Once again - I *know* people who have modeled. They have no made a career out of it. Perhaps that's the smart way of looking at it. Somoene with half a brain will collect business cards from the photographer(s) and crew who set up the shoot and manager(s) and whatnot. One of my close friends and a former lab partner started out doing modeling on the side while we were lab techs at a solar company. When we graduated, I stuck with my path as a chemist but he also worked for a business degree, saved up a bunch of contacts from his time as a model, and is studying fashion while also operating a small modeling agency. I'm fully aware not everyone can be like that. Even if you try, and meet all the arbitrary BS that a certain industry pushes on you, sometimes you just don't get the hand that you want. But let's go back to my original point - The faults of the industry aside, at the end of the day most of the pictures posted were of people who agreed to have that photo taken of them in exchange for money or whatever. At the end of the day, those who participate in that industry need to take a stand on their own and use the tools available to them to fix them.

Oh, before you go all "BUT ITS DIFFERNT FR THE MODELS!" how naive are you about how the world turns? Do you seriously not think that engineers, scientists, skilled laborers, teachers, and everyone else in the world is somehow exempt from any of this shit? My heart would be weeping for the modeling industry if the things they faced were different from my own. Hell, I've already had to put up with sexism where an excellent female candidate for a QA position in production was turned down and a super lazy male was accepted instead because he's "One of the good ol' boys" of my boss. And I've had to put my foot down and say I won't develop a new product using a raw material that was deemed "unsafe for human contact" when it's a product that will have skin contact. I was even threatened that failure to deliver the product on time could result in me being fired. But I stood my ground, took my time, and developed a product that fully and cleanly passed all the safety tests instead of having to lie and take the shortcut. My boss wasn't happy with it, but I had the confidence in myself to do it. And I had my own risks to contend with as well. We have suppliers and customers, so guess what? I could;ve easily ended up with some bad marks on myself simply by him picking up the phone and making a few calls. Our material suppliers supply a lot of people in the industry so I could very well end up facing difficulty getting hired simply because I did "what I thought was right". I apologize, but my heart does not weep for other Americans who are protected by labor laws and all the other laws and have the right to unionize and assemble yet still whine about issues that they can directly take control of.

Looking at modelalliance.org - I congratulate them. They are doing exactly what I would do - using their rights as employees in America to demand fair and equal working conditions. THey are not trying to shut down their own industry, they are trying to make it so they can be treated correctly for what they do.

Let's jump back to my first post here, shall we? Is modeling the "fairest" job in the world? No, and I never made any claims that it was. Is it safer than doing porn or strip clubs? Yes. Undoubtedly yes. Would I have ore to talk about with one of these models than just "U r hawt show bewbs plz!"? Yes. I made no statement whatsoever that the industry was some knight in shining armor for women. But you somehow twisted my words around in your head that I am somehow "pro-exploitation of models". The ONE concession I will ay about these NSFW posts is that often neither the photographer nor the model are given credit for the work provided. It might not be much, but asking people to do that is the only change I can see needing to be made here. Otherwise, the models agreed on having their photo taken for whatever pay or compensation they got. If they think they got shafted,then they need to negotiate better. If they didn't get what was agreed on, then they need to exercise their legal rights.

JasonStern911 > Reigntastic 01/31/2014 at 02:01

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Reverse sexism, or at least girl logic in its true form. Apparently the female body isn't for appreciation, as that could lead to objectification. But the alternative to that is to shield women's bodies and only leave their personalities, like they do in the middle east. But we all know how oppressive that is - at least to women that have beauty.

JasonStern911 > yamahog 01/31/2014 at 02:05

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What's next? People shouldn't post pictures of cars with a beach in them as it is insensitive to those that live in snowy areas that don't have beaches, and people in snowy areas shouldn't post pictures of cars with snow around them as it is insensitive to people in beach areas that do not have snow. I get not wanting to objectify women, but if the women in the photos gain self esteem from knowing men appreciate their bodies, then what exactly makes you the moral compass that the internet should adhere to?

Justino6969 > Reigntastic 01/31/2014 at 11:02

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This post has NSFW in the title, and there is no NSFW here. I am disappoint.

Reigntastic > Justino6969 01/31/2014 at 11:42

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I'll remedy that in ~6 hours.

Ron Callahan > Reigntastic 01/31/2014 at 12:43

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It's not about whether it's objectifying or distasteful or disrespectful TO YOU.

NSFW is a basically a don't be a dumb-a** warning: "You may not find this offensive, but someone walking by your cube and looking over your shoulder may feel differently."

It's about being an adult and respecting your workplace and your co-workers.

Reigntastic > Ron Callahan 01/31/2014 at 14:10

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Not where I was going with the discussion. Workplace appropriate completely makes sense, I was mostly inquiring about those who felt it was never appropriate.